Unable to boot with latest kernel 6.19 after upgrading to new mobo bios

Hi All,

I’m currently unable to boot into the latest 6.19 kernel after upgrading my mobo ( msi 870e carbon) to latest available bios 7E49v1A8.

I get the following recurring error when booting: amd-vi: event logged [io_page_fault device=0000:00:00.0 domain=0x0000 address=0x100d8d000 flags=0x0050]

I can’t find these logs in journalctl and dmesg.

After downgrading back to the lts kernel, there are no issues.

specs:

7800x3d

32Gb g-skill CL30@6000mhz

7900XT GPU

I also tried disabling expo and all the other overclocking features in the bios.

Any idea what might cause this? is there a known bug for the latest kernel?

I can’t find anything for that particular fault code.

Please let me know if you need any additional logs and where I can find them.

Thanks in advance!


edit, added lspci output

00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Root Complex [1022:14d8]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
00:00.2 IOMMU [0806]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge IOMMU [1022:14d9]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
00:01.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14da]
00:01.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge GPP Bridge [1022:14db]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
00:01.2 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge GPP Bridge [1022:14db]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
00:02.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14da]
00:02.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge GPP Bridge [1022:14db]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
00:02.2 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge GPP Bridge [1022:14db]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
00:03.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14da]
00:04.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14da]
00:08.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14da]
00:08.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Internal GPP Bridge to Bus [C:A] [1022:14dd]
        Subsystem: Device [7e49:1462]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
00:08.3 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Internal GPP Bridge to Bus [C:A] [1022:14dd]
        Subsystem: Device [7e49:1462]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
00:14.0 SMBus [0c05]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH SMBus Controller [1022:790b] (rev 71)
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: piix4_smbus
        Kernel modules: i2c_piix4, sp5100_tco
00:14.3 ISA bridge [0601]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH LPC Bridge [1022:790e] (rev 51)
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
00:18.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Data Fabric; Function 0 [1022:14e0]
00:18.1 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Data Fabric; Function 1 [1022:14e1]
00:18.2 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Data Fabric; Function 2 [1022:14e2]
00:18.3 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Data Fabric; Function 3 [1022:14e3]
        Kernel driver in use: k10temp
        Kernel modules: k10temp
00:18.4 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Data Fabric; Function 4 [1022:14e4]
00:18.5 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Data Fabric; Function 5 [1022:14e5]
00:18.6 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Data Fabric; Function 6 [1022:14e6]
00:18.7 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge Data Fabric; Function 7 [1022:14e7]
01:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Navi 10 XL Upstream Port of PCI Express Switch [1002:1478] (rev 24)
        Subsystem: Sapphire Technology Limited Device [1da2:1478]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
02:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Navi 10 XL Downstream Port of PCI Express Switch [1002:1479] (rev 24)
        Subsystem: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Navi 10 XL Downstream Port of PCI Express Switch [1002:1479]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
03:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Navi 48 [Radeon RX 9070/9070 XT/9070 GRE] [1002:7550] (rev c0)
        Subsystem: Sapphire Technology Limited Navi 48 XTX [Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 9070 XT] [1da2:e490]
        Kernel driver in use: amdgpu
        Kernel modules: amdgpu
03:00.1 Audio device [0403]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Navi 48 HDMI/DP Audio Controller [1002:ab40]
        Subsystem: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Navi 48 HDMI/DP Audio Controller [1002:ab40]
        Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
        Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
04:00.0 Non-Volatile memory controller [0108]: Seagate Technology PLC E18 PCIe SSD [1bb1:5018] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: Seagate Technology PLC E18 PCIe SSD [1bb1:5018]
        Kernel driver in use: nvme
        Kernel modules: nvme
05:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Upstream Port [1022:43f4] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
06:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
06:04.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
06:05.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
06:08.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
06:0c.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
06:0d.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
07:00.0 Non-Volatile memory controller [0108]: Samsung Electronics Co Ltd NVMe SSD Controller PM9A1/PM9A3/980PRO [144d:a80a]
        Subsystem: Samsung Electronics Co Ltd Device [144d:a812]
        Kernel driver in use: nvme
        Kernel modules: nvme
08:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8125 2.5GbE Controller [10ec:8125] (rev 05)
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: r8169
        Kernel modules: r8169
09:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8126 5GbE Controller [10ec:8126] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: r8169
        Kernel modules: r8169
0a:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Upstream Port [1022:43f4] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
0b:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
0b:06.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
0b:08.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
0b:0c.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
0b:0d.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1022:43f5] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:3328]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
0c:00.0 Non-Volatile memory controller [0108]: Samsung Electronics Co Ltd NVMe SSD Controller S4LV008[Pascal] [144d:a80c]
        Subsystem: Samsung Electronics Co Ltd SSD 990 PRO [144d:a801]
        Kernel driver in use: nvme
        Kernel modules: nvme
0d:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Qualcomm Technologies, Inc WCN785x Wi-Fi 7(802.11be) 320MHz 2x2 [FastConnect 7800] [17cb:1107] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: Foxconn International, Inc. High Band Simultaneous Wireless Network Adapter [105b:e0f7]
        Kernel driver in use: ath12k_pci
        Kernel modules: ath12k
0e:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Mellanox Technologies MT27500 Family [ConnectX-3] [15b3:1003]
        Subsystem: Mellanox Technologies ConnectX-3 10 GbE Single Port SFP+ Adapter [15b3:0055]
        Kernel driver in use: mlx4_core
        Kernel modules: mlx4_core
0f:00.0 USB controller [0c03]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 800 Series Chipset USB 3.x XHCI Controller [1022:43fd] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:1142]
        Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
        Kernel modules: xhci_pci
10:00.0 SATA controller [0106]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset SATA Controller [1022:43f6] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:1062]
        Kernel driver in use: ahci
        Kernel modules: ahci
11:00.0 USB controller [0c03]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 800 Series Chipset USB 3.x XHCI Controller [1022:43fd] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:1142]
        Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
        Kernel modules: xhci_pci
12:00.0 SATA controller [0106]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] 600 Series Chipset SATA Controller [1022:43f6] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. Device [1b21:1062]
        Kernel driver in use: ahci
        Kernel modules: ahci
13:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Upstream Port [1b21:2421] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Upstream Port [1b21:2421]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
14:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1b21:2423] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1b21:2423]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
14:01.0 PCI bridge [0604]: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1b21:2423] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1b21:2423]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
14:02.0 PCI bridge [0604]: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1b21:2423] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1b21:2423]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
14:03.0 PCI bridge [0604]: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1b21:2423] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 PCIe Switch Downstream Port [1b21:2423]
        Kernel driver in use: pcieport
        Kernel modules: shpchp
75:00.0 USB controller [0c03]: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 USB 3.2 xHCI Controller [1b21:2426] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 USB 3.2 xHCI Controller [1b21:2426]
        Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
        Kernel modules: xhci_pci
76:00.0 USB controller [0c03]: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 USB 4 / Thunderbolt 3 Host Router [1b21:2425] (rev 01)
        Subsystem: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM4242 USB 4 / Thunderbolt 3 Host Router [1b21:2425]
        Kernel driver in use: thunderbolt
        Kernel modules: thunderbolt
77:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Raphael [1002:164e] (rev cb)
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: amdgpu
        Kernel modules: amdgpu
77:00.1 Audio device [0403]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Radeon High Definition Audio Controller [1002:1640]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
        Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
77:00.2 Encryption controller [1080]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 19h PSP/CCP [1022:1649]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: ccp
        Kernel modules: ccp
77:00.3 USB controller [0c03]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge USB 3.1 xHCI [1022:15b6]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
        Kernel modules: xhci_pci
77:00.4 USB controller [0c03]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge USB 3.1 xHCI [1022:15b7]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
        Kernel modules: xhci_pci
77:00.6 Audio device [0403]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Ryzen HD Audio Controller [1022:15e3]
        DeviceName: Realtek ALC1220
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:ee49]
        Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
        Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
78:00.0 USB controller [0c03]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Raphael/Granite Ridge USB 2.0 xHCI [1022:15b8]
        Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device [1462:7e49]
        Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
        Kernel modules: xhci_pci

When updating the UEFI/BIOS, it usually reverts back to the defaults (at least on my Asus mobo). Make sure you disable secure boot and fast boot.

EDIT: please apply formatting to your long text (</> icon), thanks.

secure boot and fastboot are disabled

Checked the update on your board:

Description: 

- AGESA PI pre-1.3.0.0 updated. 
- Enable the "BIOS UEFI/CSM Mode" option.

I presume the second thing might have messed up your boot. Please check your BIOS again, make sure to disable CSM, double-check that secure boot is really off (Other OS - Custom; at least on my board).

Anecdotally, I updated also and have the same AGESA, with no issues.

Then why does work with the LTS (Linux 6.18.10-2-cachyos-lts) kernel? This seems to be a regression for the 6.19 kernel. Or some kind of a compatibility issue.

Testing the LTS would be my next suggestion, wanted to have the BIOS/UEFI stuff out of the way first.

6.19 was just released, it will take a while to iron out any regressions and bugs. For now, use LTS.

Also FYI:

Important Note: Some MSI motherboards have UEFI firmware that does not fully comply with the UEFI specification. This can lead to compatibility issues with certain boot managers, including GRUB and rEFInd.

I checked again CSM is disabled, it’s set to UEFI and secure boot is disabled.

I’ll try installing the limine boot manager, I’m currently using the systemd bootmanager

Okay, that is interesting. Might that be my problem, too? I am on a MSI B650 mobo and on rEFInd. If so, how can I continue? Will I have to switch to limine?

Ignore my previous comment. Limine gave the same problem after rebooting again. I downgraded my bios back to 7E49v1A70 and I was able to boot with 6.19 again. So it seems to be an AGESA PI pre-1.3.0.0 compatibility issue or possibly some weird bug for the UEFI/CSM option in the newer bios version..since I was unable to boot on both options..

This is a weird issue. The message says “Some MSI motherborads”, it is not specified. It is also not the AGESA by itself, I have mentioned that I do not have such an issue on my ASUS system after updating to it (“AGESA updated to ComboAM5 PI_Pre1.3.0.0 for better security”). I am using Limine, though.

@HardCode4All Just hold off any UEFI/BIOS updating for a bit, I presume the issue will be fixed later. If you want to switch to Limine, I think there are several forum threads here; I myself migrated from systemd boot to Limine to get the snapshots functionality. Another option might be using the LTS kernel, as @Eniaec mentioned.

@mad yeah, well you see, the LTS kernel that currently boots is 6.12.69-3, but the LTS kernels just changed to 6.18.10-2. My kernel panic is on the 6.18.9-2, and I am pretty scared that the “new” LTS will also panic, leaving me with an unbootable system. If I knew it was really the Boot Manager, I might consider switching, but when it is a problem with the mainboard, I… just don’t know. What a f***up :frowning: I really think I will add the LTS kernel to the IgnorePkg for now so that I keep the possibility to boot into the system at all.

Are you currently running the latest available bios for your mobo? Did you try installing different bios versions or rolling back to an older version?
Edit: just checked your post. Based on the kernel panic error you’re getting, it might be worth a try to change boot manager, since it’s a FS mounting issue.

@Eniaec , @mad :
I will continue this discussion over in my thread.

@Eniaec : did you fix your issue? Is any of the answers here the solution?

@Eniaec @HardCode4All

The new Kernel version might fix the booting issue:

That surely sounds interesting! I guess I’ll just wait a couple of days until that’s available in the Cachy repos. Thanks for letting us know! :+1:

6.19.2 appears to be in the repos now, but it doesn’t seem to fix the issue @Eniaec has (which sounds similar to what I’ve seen).

I can get the 6.19 series kernels to boot by disabling the iommu (e.g, iommu=pt flag), but even linux-cachyos 6.19.2-2 is freezing up immedately with a bunch of the AMD-Vi: […] IO_PAGE_FAULT messages without that.

Unfortunately, 6.19.2-2 does not fix my issue :frowning: And I can’t get a boot log of it because the Kernel Panic tells me that it can’t access the drive, which is a NVME drive and I get the suspicion that it has something to do with that, because the /dev/sdX drives seem to be detected…

I will say I’m pretty sure your issue is different: at least as far as I’ve seen with the IOMMU issue, it’s new between 6.18 and 6.19 (6.18 worked perfectly fine, and still does as -lts) and doesn’t get far enough to even try to panic by not finding the root partition. It hits some roadblock trying to even start the low-level stuff, it never manages to get PCIe, USB, or SATA working because the IO page faults seem to be stomping over all the initialization attempts. (I’d have to go back to reboot and take a picture to see again but it was particularly noticeable when it attempted to retry one of the initalizations and right after that message there was two more ‘oops the IO page table isn’t set up right’ IO page fault messages)

Damn it. I am so out of ideas here and to be honest, my enthusiasm for Cachy / Linux in general is dampened quite a bit at the moment. Because we do not actually know where my Kernel Panic stems from, I can’t get a boot log and so on. I am completely out of ideas except for maybe switching to Limine, but that seems also pretty complicated, and I am a bit tentative to do that without knowing if that is the root cause or not.